It’s been an interesting 20 years where we had the dotcom crash, the 9/11, and the financial crisis. Now, there’s the threat of COVID looming over not just the real estate space but practically every industry! In this episode, Dan Deppen sits down with Kyle Zimpleman from Expand Capital Group. Kyle has been investing in real estate for over twenty years and has experience in several forms of real estate investing including running a note fund. They discuss the changes in the note industry over time, and the unique environment we find ourselves in today.
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Buying Notes During COVID With Kyle Zimpleman
We’ve got a great episode. We’ll talk to Kyle Zimpleman. Kyle is an experienced real estate investor going back to the ’90s and has done a ton of notes and has lived through a lot of the different cycles. We had a good discussion about this unique state of the market that we find ourselves in and some of the challenges that people are running into. Before we get to that, I wanted to let you know about some things going on at the end of 2020. As you may know, oftentimes as we get into the fourth quarter, you’ll have some note sellers that have certain assets. They want to get off their books and get rid of it. I know for myself, I have occasionally. There have been a few years where I’ve picked up some killer deals right at the end of 2020. That’s not always the case, but sometimes it is. 2020 is weird so we’ll see how it goes. If the deals do show up at the end of 2020, you want to make sure you’re prepared.
One of the things that I wanted to do is help everyone get ready for that. What I’m doing is offering a bonus with the Systematic Due Diligence course. I sent out the details, my newsletter but now if you get this Systematic Due Diligence course, there are some additional materials that I’m adding in. You can also do a one-hour coaching call with me that’s included. The price stays the same. If you’re interested in that, you can check out SystematicDueDiligence.com or the Fusion Notes website. Let me know if you have any questions about that. Now, let’s get onto the main show.
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I’m joined by Kyle Zimpleman of the Expand Capital Group. Kyle, how is it going?
I’m doing good. How are you doing?
I’m not too bad. Thanks for coming on. You’ve got an in-depth background in real estate investing. Maybe start by giving an overview of some of the things you’ve done.
There’s a laundry list. We could start out on all stuff that I’ve been involved with. I got into real estate in 1999 as a realtor. I came out of college and my dad was a broker, “You can make all this money in real estate on the buy, helping someone help buy and sell houses.” I then gradually went to in Grand Rapids, I was a Grand Valley student. In downtown, there was all this need for housing down there. They had these expensive places and then these dumps. I started buying these 5, 6-bedroom houses and I create what’s called Fulton Management. We didn’t build but we would take a five-bedroom place. At that time, it was like $80,000. We put college kids in them. If I thought I would live there, I’m like, “I’ll try to find a way to buy it.” That was when anybody with a pulse to get loans and all that fun stuff. I did all the BRRRR Method, everything people talk about now and then all these young kids that are like, “I got started in 2010 and I kept on going up and up and I make more and more money.”
At some point, you’re going to end up in a correction situation. What happened to me as I built this portfolio of 40, 50 houses downtown became overleveraged in a lot of aspects. I was talking to another guy, I said, “Before I was stupid and aggressive and in ways that paid off for me in ways that didn’t. Now, I’m smart but scared and I don’t do anything.” Now I know better, but then it’s even more frustrating when you watch somebody overpay for multifamily or, “I got two guys together. We bought this for $500,000 and we sold it for $1.6 million. How awesome are we?” “What did you do?” “Nothing.” “Rates went down. We’re awesome.” It’s not like they had some innate skill. It’s just that when rates go down, your purchasing power goes up, cap rates get compressed and everything goes the other direction until it doesn’t. In 2010, I’ve started first Expand Capital as a way to buy distressed properties.
I was seeing all these houses that I was buying for a $100,000 and $150,000 going for $30,000, $40,000. We picked up this one four-unit property on Douglas Street. If they’re in Grand Rapids, people will know what I’m talking about there. I picked it up for $26,000. Every unit was fine, but the last unit, the top far unit, I can grab my arm around it going all the way down, but it was frozen solid. I thought, “Worst case is we’ll have three units. We’ll figure this out.” We ended up keeping it frozen, chiseled all the ice out. That was part of my career of moving through the great depression, into rebuilding, buying those types of properties. I realized at some point, “They’re not giving us money like they’re giving us money before.” Hard money lenders were at 12%, two points. If it went past six months, you pay an additional month. If it goes past a year you pay another two months. I held some of those properties because I bought those in ’08.
I sold those in 2012. I held that note for four years, 2 or 3 of them. Long story short, it was my background. I’m going to get to the note part here quickly. In 2012, what happened was I couldn’t get financing so I need to bring in other people to help me out with the business. I brought in my doctor, his dad, some other people, and we started financing more deals. In 2017, ’18, I’m like, “The price has gone up so much. There’s no way things can be sustained. How is the renter going to pay this? Let’s get out.” We sold everything. I’ve never had a decent chunk of money sitting there and going, “What do I do with this? I can’t put it in my savings account and pet it all day long. I can’t go buy the same property that sold.” I started listening to these podcasts, Scott Carson and Eddie Speed stuff and I go, “I’ll take a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and try to put it with my knowledge.” At that time, 2017, Harbor was selling off a lot of their stuff.
I started getting these tapes because I’ve never seen the value differences before like, “This is only $30,000 note and the property I know is worth $90,000 or $80,000 even if it was in rough shape and I’m going to make 10%. Let’s go all-in and create a company, create a fund because there’s no way I could just do this on my own.” I go all-in and it takes me 5, 6 months to get this fund together. By that point, it’s been cherry-picked over and over and all the stuff that was decent was not so decent anymore. I still was able to buy up a decent chunk for myself before I started the group. I put those into the group’s deal. From that point on, it’s been, “How do I maintain a yield high enough that I can get other people involved?” People are like, “You’re at 12%, 14%.” I’m like, “Number one, that’s gross. Number two people don’t always pay on time. Number three, you have to take a property back it’s 3, 4, 6 months then you’ve got to figure out what you’re going to do with it.” There’s that loss timeframe.
Somehow investors are going to want to make more than just a preferred return at the end of this thing. They’re going to want some magical equity. There is no magical equity unless you can figure out this partial plan. As soon as this is over and the people have had a little bit on this part of the business. I’m not sure who reads this but long story short, it has gotten difficult to find anything that makes sense in this business. People can see that if they go on Realtor.com or Zillow, they can see, “These values, how the heck is someone paying $800 in rent, but you want $150 for that place?” It doesn’t work. That’s not even a cap rate. That’s a zero-cap rate. Being in the business and knowing what a tenant is going to do to a property, knowing that at some point the roof is going to go bad.
The furnace is going to be replaced. I had college kids leave in December and they clicked off the heat one time because they don’t want to pay the heating bill. I go by and I find my house is frozen solid. That stuff that happens in this business. I’m like, “Let’s get away from the toilets, termites, and the tenants and there’s going to be this easy business called note investing.” You then flip that switch, now you’re dealing with a lot of legalities, a lot of lawyers. As soon as that property goes defunct or goes bad, if it’s a full mortgage, you’re paying lawyers left and right. It’s big bucks.
The taxes and insurance usually too, while all of that is going on.
They’re paying the insurance bill. You’re trying to like, “I can’t fix this property because I don’t own it. I have to sit there and watch it deteriorate.” It hasn’t been that magical investment. However, I still believe in the fact that it is the best investment out there now for people to buy. The whole thing you’re trying to do is protect yourself with equity. If the market corrects or rents don’t keep on going up and up, if rates can’t go any lower, which they can’t, how are we going to see appreciation? Why are you buying at a 5% cap rate or yield return? How are you going to make that sustainable? You’re not on the rental side of it.
The mortgage side of it you can buy something that’s worth a lot less, but the borrower knows this too. Everyone is like, “We’ll just get the property back. We’ll have them sign over a deed in lieu.” If they know there’s value in the property, one, you never hear from them. They’ll just make contact. The business is a lot harder than I first imagined it to be. When I created the first investment group, I thought, “This is a fund, we’re buying property. It’s going to go up in value.” In this way, we’re a fund in almost like a yield perspective. Can we do better than S&P? Can we get to 12%? Can we safely protect people’s money? The answer is, yes. However, how much time it takes me to do this? Is it worth my time? That’s where I miscalculated because I thought, “If I could get to $1 million or $2 million in investor’s money, now I’ll be able to buy this and buy that and I’ll be awesome.”
It’s not a lot of money. Number one, as much as I thought it was, you’re buying for cash. There’s no leverage real potential. The screen does a partial and those types of things. Number two, if it’s performing, your only exit strategy is to sell it to another investor. They’re going to look at the same metrics you are and there’s not a lot out there. If you’re earning 0.0% in your savings account, you’ll take a 5%. I see some of the big guy stuff that comes through, they call it scratching debt Fannie and Freddie.
Things can happen in any business. Click To TweetThose are tiny yields usually.
The rate, the whack they call it, the overall pool is 3.99%, 9%. You’re going to get a 5% discount to own that paper. It’s not federally insured either. You’re just getting 4% on a property that was purchased that’s overvalued. Something is going to hit here in a large sense because they’re able to unload all this stuff on the secondary markets. There’s an appetite for all that. Once things start to go in the opposite direction which every spiral goes the other way too. In my opinion, it wasn’t like 2007 that all of a sudden everything went down to nothing of value and we all were sitting destitute. It was similar to what happened in March and April of 2020, where it’s like, “That was a weird bump.” “Lehman went under, I don’t even know there was a Lehman, who was the Lehman?”
These things take time. I’ve gone back and looked at those timelines in ’08. Even in the dot-com crash in stocks before. It wasn’t like one day they flipped a switch. It happened over time. With the stock market being crazy and interest rates are being low and bond prices being high. A lot of times those scratching debt mortgages at 4% or 5%. For some institutional investors, it makes a lot of sense. It could be the best thing going, but that doesn’t leave you enough as an individual who’s going to bring on investors to pay them what they need and then have it all work.
How do you make money in that deal? There’s an underlying thing that you are doing when you’re syndicating a deal and it’s your friends or it’s your business partners or people you work with, you’re guaranteeing this deal. All your money that is invested is the money that’s cushioned that if something happens, you’re going to lose all your money and then they’re going to get their money back and then some hopefully, with their house. Not only are you risking your time, you’re also not going to that 9:00 to 5:00. You’re stressing yourself out. You’re trying to figure out all these business plans and game plans on how to make this work.
On top of that, you guaranteeing everything you’re doing to some extent in which you don’t have that control. Things can happen in any business. That adds another element of stress to what you’re doing. Unless you have a $10 million, $50 million, $100 million funds, you can’t move money around enough to make a good living doing it, either for the risk, for the reward, for the stress. You need $10 million to make it worth somebody’s time to leave Corporate America where you got the cushy 9:00 to 5:00 and you can hide behind somebody else’s emails and other things too. You can’t do that in this business. It’s, “Kyle, you said we’re going to get an 8% deferred return. Where is our 8% deferred return?” “Here it is. It’s 0.25%.” I made 0.25% that year running around, doing everything that we have to do in this business.
You can’t make any guarantees. There are no guarantees that exist in the business. I had an exchange with somebody and he asked for a guarantee. To me, that’s like the G-word. I’m like, “We’re done with that point.”
You can’t say that but I’m saying implicitly.
You do what you can to take care of it.
I’m going to lose all my money before I lose somebody else’s money. That’s the bottom line. I can’t just move in. I have family and kids and you can’t just up and take off. If you’re a scam artist or something, you’ve got to stand by your word and what you do. I’ve been waiting pretty much since 2008 going, “Maybe this is the day the sky falls, maybe tomorrow is, maybe whatever else.” Then that whole COVID thing hit. There’s always that black swan event, a catalyst. With the dot-come bust, there were a few companies that created an avalanche. It’s the same with ’08. It was before AIG, Lehman. It was somebody else. It was all these other companies that brought it all together to create this huge problem.
With COVID and we’re talking in March, April, I was like, “Here it is. This is the stuff I’ve been emailing people about and telling them, ‘The recession is an asymmetrical thing.'” It has to happen. Otherwise, bread be worth $18 now. That was worth $3. Now, that’s too much. It’s all going up. We then have this V-shape recovery. It goes crazy the other direction. They throw trillions of dollars of everything. What you were saying too is things take time to unwind and to unravel. I was listening to Sam Zell, which is a super-rich person. He’s one of the best multifamily operators in the world. I’ve read all his books. He’s saying like there are not a lot deals happening because there’s too much separation between the seller thinking, “I want this price.” If I’m going, “Do you not see the risk that I’m seeing? There’s no way I’m paying you that price.”
That’s what I’ve been seeing in notes as well. It seems like the trading volume has been thin. I’ve picked up a couple of things here and there and mostly it’s been from other note investors who have an investor that wants to cash out for what they have but it’s not your normal. It’s not like the heyday of when Harbor was selling off of all their stuff and there was good stuff that you could buy.
You can buy that $0.60 and then sell it to somebody at $0.70 and they’re safe. Now, they’re selling their stuff at $0.70, at $0.80. I’m seeing that selling at $0.90. It’s like, “It’s 10% and here’s the history.” If you’re in a state that allows forfeiture in a way, they have a good story that, “There’s a chance you’re going to own property worth a lot more if it goes the other direction, even at $0.90.” I wouldn’t be buying mortgages at that because I’m not in Ohio or in some of these other states where you sit on the property for years and you watch the lawyer bills stack up. You’re afraid to send the guy an email because he’s going to charge you $45 for that email and some of these groups. Once you got started with somebody, once you get a certain degree into foreclosure with an attorney, you’re on that horse until they get done. You’re going to be charged. I went on a little tirade there because I’ve been cooped up in the house here too. My wife is a teacher, so she’s out going to school but she didn’t have any kids.
Are you in school? My kids are at home.
My kids are right over here and until they go back, I’m under house arrest. It’s an interesting time. There has to be some give and take on this mortgage side of it. You can’t give forbearance, forfeiture, foreclosure, relief, eviction relief and throw all this money around. There must be a capitalist society, a risk-reward system. At some point, we’re going to see that. We’ve been on the longest expansion in the history of the United States. It’s never gone 10, 12 years before without a catalyst problem. As an investor and a guy who went through the Great Recession, you’re constantly in the back of your mind and it’s like, “If I do this, what’s my downside and is this the right move? Should I be waiting for the money because something better is going to happen? Why would I take this 10% return right now and I think I can get a quadruple homerun if I sat and waited on the money?” You then send the money, it doesn’t go anywhere. There are always opportunities out there. It is a frustrating time for someone that has the experience, but there’s no deal flow.
My approach has been to be selective. I’ve been able to grab some onesies, twosies here and there. I try to be really careful about what I do pick up and be selective. I grab what I can and then waiting for the tide to turn. I don’t think we’re going to have a wave of nonperforming residential loans like you did years ago or whatever. At some point, the number will increase when the dust settles from all this stuff, but I don’t know how long it’s going to take. It’s not clearly going to be like the next month. It could take a little bit.
The trough or whatever you’re going to say didn’t hit real estate until about 2010. Even if you start foreclosure right now in some of these states, they’re so backed up as it is. It’s going to be two years before that property even hits the market or a year. I’ve been trying to tell people as everyone’s sitting there waiting for the MLS for these deals to pop up. I go, “I don’t think it’s going to happen that way. I think it’s going to happen behind the scenes. The banks are going to sell this stuff off. They’re not going to put their necks out and their names out there again. Here’s this foreclosure brought to you by Bank of America.” They’re not going to do that. They want to get rid of it. They’re going to move that paper underneath and sell it to bigger hedge funds, bigger groups and we’re hoping that it will trickle down to us after it gets cherry-picked a million different ways. The other part of it is even if it does come, are we going to see it?
It has gotten so difficult to find anything that makes sense in this business. Click To TweetIt takes time. Thinking back to the last cycle, Florida was one of the leading states and it was maybe ’06 where their property value started getting slammed. Some of the full effects didn’t start getting seen until 2010. I wasn’t active at that time in notes, but I believe notes didn’t start popping up for individual note investors until even after that. I can take a little bit of time.
If you go to the IMNs and you hear some people talk, “I want to go back to the day that we could buy at $0.10 and $0.20.” I’m like, “I don’t think what occurred is never going to happen exactly occurs again. It never does that.” Another tool in our tool belt if we now know that this stuff is out there, that we can find it along with other stuff. The other thing that is overvalued in possibly a huge bubble would be multifamily. I used to sell the stuff and be $30,000, $40,000 a year and now they’re like $80,000, $90,000, $120,000 for some areas per unit and the math doesn’t make sense. It’s flying off the shelf.
I don’t know anything about multifamily, but it seemed like when I would go to local real estate meetups here around Colorado or other places, it seemed like everybody and their mom was interested in multifamily. This was back before COVID when you could do that. That was the big thing that everybody wanted to do. They said not knowing anything about it, but I had the sense. It’s the best thing that everyone wants to do. Those deals have to be getting thin at some point.
That’s an industry you can get hurt on if you’re not experienced in it too. The biggest issue is like, “We syndicate this deal and we buy this multifamily and our investors are expecting this return after everything is all done. They’re expecting when you refinance it that they’ll get cashed out and triple their money.” There are a lot of things that have to happen in between that for that to occur. You can get lucky from 2010 to 2020 but how are you going to get lucky from 2020 to 2025 or whatever? When you can’t lower rates, banks are going to start tightening things up, they have to, at some point. When renters aren’t paying and renters can’t pay 1/3 or 2/3s of their income to live in a shack somewhere or 600 square foot place. I then go back to, “Am I the old guy saying, ‘Get off my lawn’ to kids now?” I’ve been through 2008. Like I said, “Am I stupid?” I don’t know.
I think you want to balance and take advantage of your experience. I’ve talked to some people, it seems like they were anchored on some of those old prices, getting stuff, whatever it was $0.10 on the dollar and all that and just try not to get too gun shy from things that have gone sideways. I know I’ve hit my share of hiccups and had my lessons learned. I got to incorporate those and keep going.
At this point in my life, it’s time now not to keep on, “Is that stove hot? It is.” I should already know it at this point to avoid certain things, markets or business ventures and whatnot. My goal is why I created my investment group was there’s got to be a lot of other people like that too going, “We either sold out over investment or we made our money back out of the stock market. Do we want to leave it there? Where can we put money that as much you can say safely put?” I can’t find anywhere to put it other than notes.
That’s the thing, it’s not as good as it used to be. It has its challenges, which was what makes it a good market because that’s what keeps everybody and their mom from trying to do it and relative to a lot of other things. On a relative basis, it’s almost as good as ever. I’m curious about what you’ve been seeing as far as your performing loans have your borrowers kept up during COVID and everything that’s been going on?
Surprisingly, we only have one person and they called about the COVID relief. Through our service company, I use Allied and the rest were making payments in this business. Sometimes people go back a month or two and then they catch up for a month. You’re dealing with balances of $30,000, $40,000 which in my opinion are low. You’re talking less than a car payment at $300, $400 payments, but there are a lot of people that still struggle to make that payment. The question then becomes like, “What else do they not make payments on or are not fixing up or they’re not going to have money for the roof that needs to be fixed?” You’ve got to balance that with your risk-return, but I can’t find a better place to put money now if that’s a thing.
I’ve seen a similar thing and I’ve been pleasantly amazed at how well all my borrowers have hung in there. I have borrowers go south all the time even when things are good. When this started to hit, I assume that a lot of my loans that were paying were going to stop, but then maybe pricing on notes would go down and it’s been the opposite. Everybody’s hung in there. I’ve even had a couple of borrowers make big reinstatements. Borrowers that you couldn’t get in to make a $300 payment if their life depended on it and all of a sudden, they cough up a few thousand to prevent. Nothing happened more than once during COVID.
I talked to some big apartment guys too that eventually started getting back into that, but they didn’t skip a beat either because the government gave them $600 or $1,000 a month or not in a month. It could be more than that $2,400 or $3,000. That’s where they got these lump sum money from. It came from the sky, the helicopter money. That’s ended and that’s why once this Band-Aid gets ripped off and they’re already fighting on new stimulus, how many trillions can we throw at people before we have a problem? It dawned on me because I always looked at our national debt and other debts. I was like, “How crazy this number is. It keeps them going and going. Our government will never pay it off. They’ll never pay it down. It’s not real money, Kyle. They printed that, created it and then they bought it back, create a bond. This is not real money. None of this is.”
I came to that conclusion and that’s also disheartening because it’s almost like you’re going to reward people for bad behavior. You’re going to reward people for not paying their rent. You’re going to reward them for not paying their house payment because there’s a chance if you got kicked out, you might cough on somebody. That’s my two cents on it. I know there’s a real pandemic. My wife will tell you left and right that there are issues and I get that. There are risks for me to walk across the street if I still take it. You’ve got to live up on it. I know we’re supposed to give this thing that like 30 or 20 minutes.
We go as long as we need to, that’s the guideline, but definitely crazy times and I continue to predict wrong like what’s going to happen over the next several months. It’s more confusing as it goes along.
The financial planners are right there. You just leave it in there and you always pump it in and eventually they’ll pump out more money. How? It just does. That’s what it’s been doing forever.
It’s been an interesting few years where you had the dot-com crash, 9/11, the financial crisis and now COVID. It’s rare historically to have the number of events like that in relatively a short time span. It’s been nutty.
I talked to my wife’s parents. We’ve seen these headlines and how the market went up and down and all this craziness, and I was like, “Am I just too young? Is this normal?” It’s like, “No, it’s not normal.” We keep throwing trillions of dollars around, this isn’t normal. Nothing about this is normal. We’re paying people not to work. None of this makes normal sense other than the guys have a pandemic, which I understand. Is the cure worse than the problem?
I don’t know. It’s weird. I always wonder these last few years, is this blip or is that going to be normal? Is it going to ramp up? You had this long period of time before that, between World War II and the end of the ’90s where economically things were relatively smooth for the most part. I know there were all shocks. There was a lot of stuff that happened in between, but overall I don’t know that there were any massive like black swans. If you go prior to that, you had the Great Depression, you had World War II, those are massive events back-to-back. It’s bigger than anything we’ve seen. Who knows? Hopefully, maybe we’ll be in for another 50-year run of smoother waters or maybe it will continue to get crazy.
If it's performing, your only exit strategy is to sell it to another investor. Click To TweetMy grandma passed away. We would find these old cans in the can cellar dated back from whatever, which was canning goods. I said, “That was because after the Depression she thought you need to save stuff.” I open our drawer and we had nothing but toilet paper, a whole shelf has covered everywhere. I’m like, “This is our thing. We have lots of toilet paper now.”
You were one of the hoarders from a few months ago?
I wasn’t but my wife said, “Let’s get us all from Costco.” I’m like, “Why do we need the toilet paper?” I don’t know, but we have a lot of it now, so we’re good there if this happens again.
What’s funny is because that happened last time, the next time something wacky happens, it’s going to go even faster.
We do have in time everything now. From Amazon, it’s going to show up quickly. Education and fundamentals of business and investing are going to pay off in the long run. Warren Buffett and all these other guys have all those liners you’ve ever heard, “When others are fearful, be greedy, when others are greedy, be fearful,” and all those things. Everybody’s greedy and I’m fearful, but I’ve been fearful for years. How much fear do I need to have before I can go in the opposite direction? When we’re doing these investments, we’re doing all cash. If you put a $500,000 into buying a bunch of notes and you could have bought a $3 million apartment building. It’s the same down payment.
You should leverage it.
In 2010, you would have made much money. We made a lot of money on our college housing more than I ever expected to. I had read books by Harry Dent and all these other dystopian guys are like, “This is the start of the new world order and unique gold and guns. That’s how you’re going to need to live in 2010, whatever else.” The total opposite happens. Who knows? I don’t know.
It’s always hard to predict. I’m not going to build any bomb shelters or anything though yet.
Not this time. To wrap it up is of all the things I still believe in, I don’t believe the stock market. I’ve never done well because I look at it too much. In real estate, I do believe in the fundamental of buying rental properties and holding long-term, the tax benefits, and the depreciation, all that makes a ton of sense. The problem is you’re going to compete against idiots and you’re going to overpay. I’d rather just wait. If there’s anything that’s going to make sense is buying something that has a $30,000 balance that you bought for $20,000 or whatever it is. If that person stops paying, you’re going to go through a quick process here in Michigan, 3, 5 months. You’re going to have that house that’s worth $100,000. Where else are you going to find that?
The challenge is going to be if the tide turns and you start seeing more notes available and they go on sale and there are real economic problems. Those opportunities show up, maybe not to the degree they were a few years ago but close, and all your investors are going to be at their maximum fear. That would be the next challenge is when the opportunities show up, that’s where investors will have their pick fair.
They’re like, “I just lost half the money in the stock market. I can’t get out of this real estate deal that you told me not to get into in the first place.” “I know.” “Are they going to be stuck? Yes. That’s exactly what happened the last time around. I do a lot of writing on a monthly basis. I send out newsletters and stuff about why this business makes sense. In that, I do believe markets have cycles and we have to be at the top of one. My thought is, “If I can at least show him this piece of paper I wrote from five years ago.” When it finally does hit that go, “Kyle, here’s all of our money.”
How can people get ahold of you if they want to reach out or get on your newsletter?
I’m working on another website, but the website is ExpandCap.com and there’s information on there. I’m looking to move a lot of my articles and all our photos of properties and videos. If we have them on the property, I’m going to create another website for that, “Here’s the proof and here’s the pudding. This is the real deal. Here’s the exact property. Look it up, look on the deed. We’re on the deed or we’re on the mortgage.” We did this. This is what we bought it for and this is why we did it. This is why it needs to make sense. All I can do right now is show people, “This makes sense when you could find it.”
That’s a good stopping point. Kyle, thanks for coming on. I’d love to do it again sometime next time. Until then, I’ll see you next time.
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About Kyle Zimpleman
Kyle is the managing member of Expand Capital Fund II, LLC. An investment group dedicated to protecting and growing clients’ wealth through off-market real estate opportunities. His current focus is pre-foreclosure and performing note investments secured by equity. Throughout his 20 year real estate career, he has been involved in a number of different real estate projects including multi-family, student housing, single family rentals, and note investing. He was born and raised in Grand Rapids and currently resides in South Lyon MI with his wife and two children.
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